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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:55 pm 
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I recently acquired birds from interstate and a number of them were seriously infected with Cocci – they went into freshly built pens in a shed right away from the other birds for the quarantine period.

I treated them, using the regime I mentioned at the beginning of this post, but still lost some – the ones that were lost were very rundown = almost just skin and bones and pooping straight blood, and even a 2nd treatment didn’t help –
I am just grateful that this medicant was developed as to date almost all of the other infested birds have recovered and are doing well – the few that are still ‘unwell’ = 2 of these were also very thin and run down by the infestation. I am persisting with them as they are eating and drinking well and I think they are starting to put on a bit of weight. And also because they are cheerful birds that crave human attention. All I can do is feed them well and hope for the best now. These still rundown birds are in a separate pen to the now recovering birds

# the infested birds were diagnosed with Cocci by our Vet so there is no doubt as to what was needed to be done to treat them = every single bird that I acquired from interstate was tested - the Buffs were clear but the Blue Black and Splash all showed infestation

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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:32 am 
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Thank you mummaroo very good of you to post the instruction I really appreciate that.


Soozorps, that is terrible did you contact the person you got them off and did they explain? I have read that even with treatment only 50% will survive so the odds are not good it that is true?


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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:00 am 
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Soozorps,

I must have been very disappointing for you to receive unwell birds. It can leave you with an empty feeling. I hope the surviving birds continue to improve, its surprising how much the birds can be affected by such a set back. I have often found these birds take a long time to recover and some just never quiet reach their potential.

I am still not sure how people are willing to sell or give away sick birds, I guess there can be some circumstances where this cannot be helped. It also shows that an experienced poultry person such as yourself can be caughtout just like a person new to the fancy.

I have often wondered if birds that have had such an infection, have a reduced imune system. This makes them more susceptible to other diseases as they age. I know some cattle people talk about such links between calves with scoures and bloat. Nothing scientifically proven though.

Rhode Red


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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:02 pm 
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BumbleFoot wrote:
Thank you mummaroo very good of you to post the instruction I really appreciate that.
I agree – mummaroo = by restating the instructions it reinforces the subject matter = [smilie=thanks.gif] much appreciated

Soozorps, that is terrible did you contact the person you got them off and did they explain? I have read that even with treatment only 50% will survive so the odds are not good it that is true? no I did not contact as there was no point really – the birds are in my possession now. It is often not easy to pick that a bird has Cocci until it is too late and many don’t see the signs in faeces as it can be quickly spread into the soil by all the birds.
I am not complaining just stating that it happened and to show that the birds can still die even when treated. I am not sure of the odds regards survival with such a serious infestation and I am not expecting anything = that way if the rest do survive it is a bonus


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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Rhode Red wrote:
Soozorps,

I must have been very disappointing for you to receive unwell birds. more a shock than anything – but I knew with the 2nd bird I handled as it ‘shit’ blood all over my clean clothes when I picked it up It can leave you with an empty feeling. I hope the surviving birds continue to improve, its surprising how much the birds can be affected by such a set back. the recovering birds are eating like horses and are doing better than I thought they would I have often found these birds take a long time to recover and some just never quiet reach their potential. these will never grow to their full size they are ‘stunted’ by this - but the genetics are still there = breed from them and care for the young correctly and well and they will be the ones to impress

I am still not sure how people are willing to sell or give away sick birds, I don’t believe that the people that sent them were aware that some were infested
It also shows that an experienced poultry person such as yourself can be caught out just like a person new to the fancy. we will all get ‘caught out’ at least 3 times in the time we breed poultry - I now have one to go

I have often wondered if birds that have had such an infection, have a reduced immune system. I think this may be the case = I had a clutch of gorgeous White Orps hatch 2008 and the heat wave and fires hit us in 2009 I foolishly wet my birds to keep them cool [out of desperation in 49c days and 38c nights ] but NEVER again will I wet any bird to keep it cool I use other methods now – anyway – back on topic = of the original 18 Whites only 4 survived the heat = 1 ckl 3 pullets – all contracted Cocci – they were in a pen with a dirt floor = that is how we found out it was in the ground where we were living. One pullet died from it and we nearly lost the ckl but he and the other 2 pullets pulled thru – the girls recovered fully and well but he never fully recovered, he was shown as a ckl at the 2009 Nats [ only to show the damage this Cocci does] – he was not placed – he grew rather well after that show and was shown again at the 2010 Nat Show and placed 1st as a 1st yr rooster – but he was never really ‘strong’ - he passed away [I believe from the damage done] about 3months after the 2010 show – leaving behind the 2 girls that hatched at the same time and 4 pure WA bloodline offspring, also a number of half WA birds at another breeders property. This makes them more susceptible to other diseases as they age. you could be right I know some cattle people talk about such links between calves with scoures and bloat. Nothing scientifically proven though. we have seen that link but without tests covering years and hundreds of thousands of cattle no one other than the farmer losing the animals will say “this does happen”

Rhode Red


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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Rhode Red
Quote:
I have often wondered if birds that have had such an infection, have a reduced imune system. This makes them more susceptible to other diseases as they age.

My understanding of coccidiosis is not with poultry but with Macropods and the study work I did with them was 10 years with a very knowledgeable person doing seminars and personal friendship after that. The seminars were held every 6 months for 2 days and run for 10 years. I have made inquires to see if coccidiosis from poultry reacts in the same way as it does in macropods before I say to much.
I do know that with the work that I did between 1995 and 2005 with the Macropods and coccidiosis that what happened when the intestines were damaged from cocci they no longer absorbed all the required nutrients out of there food and so in the long term that was detrimental to the animals growth.We tried many different things to help the absorption of nutrients.This is what worked with the macropods.We gave other medications after the initial 3 treatments with Baycox Peptosyl was given for 3 to 5 days and then onto protexin on a high stress dose of 2gms per litre 5 days and then back to 1gm per litre. As I said that was with macropods and I have no idea if it can be done with poultry.I have made enquires through the place I did the study through to see if it is possible or at least worth trying it.Remembering that coccidiosis is host specific. I know this is way out there but there was another way that helped in the macropods.Don't laugh as this worked very well.We fed the macropods goats milk.Fresh from the goat that had been exposed to goat cocci and there was immunity in that milk for the macropods despite cocci being host specific.Always fresh milk straight from the goat.I might have to try that here to see if that makes any difference with poultry.If I give them a wet mash made on warm goats milk.I never thought of it again till now.I gave up the macropods in 2006 due to other commitments so parked the knowledge away in the brain as not required any more. I am sorry some of this I am just thinking aloud.No one to bounce it of so it is you who read this's turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:00 am 
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Bouncing off bouncing off bouncing off =


It makes sense to me – but who would admit to having goats that have been exposed!! Most don’t want to admit publicly or even privately that ANY disease or infestation has occurred at their place.

However, as a side thought = I am wondering if Goats milk Yoghurt might help? Adding the Probiotics into the equation = the milk for the potential resistance and recuperative qualities and the Probiotics to help balance the gut =

Throwing it back to you mummaroo


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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Hi Sue,
Quote:
It makes sense to me – but who would admit to having goats that have been exposed!! Most don’t want to admit publicly or even privately that ANY disease or infestation has occurred at their place.
We deliberately exposed the goats to cocci for the sole purpose of using the milk.If we buy in a new goat then it is exposed till you see cocci ooysts in a faecal float.I know what you are saying but the goats are no good for the purpose otherwise.Using the milk of a goat not exposed is like giving water
Ok this is it in a nutshell.The milk or yoghurt cannot be pasteurised or homogenised as that destroys all the benefits and there is no point.You might as well give them water. Using protexin is always a benefit with anything.
Quote:
I am wondering if Goats milk Yoghurt might help?

unless it is home made, then no use as the milk still would have been treated and everything that is needed has been destroyed in it.
I also spoke to the 3 David's last night who are vets one local,who was my mentor when I studied this, one in Sydney that was at Western plains zoo when I studied cocci through there with Enid Latham and did work under ,and the other in SA now who also was leading the way in cocci in native animals. They all said,Coccidiosis is the same in every animal it reacts the same but is just host pacific.I could apply my ideas to poultry and they would all be very interested in how things go.I am still just waiting for conformation from a leading QLD averian vet from the University of Queensland about Peptosyl as it is as far as we know not been used in birds.There is nothing in it that would hurt a bird.It also does not contain antibiotics which made it great with macropods as you could treat with other antibiotic to prevent secondary infections like pneumonia without any possible chemical reactions between antibiotics happening.
Back to you who want to discuss this

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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:46 am 
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:oops: :oops: never even thought about the 'treated' goats milk and/or yoghurt [we make our own yoghurt so that might be why! ]


yr detail gives this thread a whole new angle doesnt it ! :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Treating for Coccidiosis using Baycox
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:48 pm 
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I was hoping that it would give a different line of thought.I hope it is not too way out.
Quote:
It makes sense to me – but who would admit to having goats that have been exposed!! Most don’t want to admit publicly or even privately that ANY disease or infestation has occurred at their place.

You don't make the goats sick with cocci you just expose them to it also.

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